Sports

Troop Acknowledges Hamilton Pan Am Stadium Proposal

By RTH Staff
Published February 01, 2011

In a statement issued this morning, Toronto 2015 CEO Ian Troop acknowledged receiving Hamilton's Pan Am Stadium proposal, which Council ratified just yesterday after the Provincial Government committed $22.5 million in additional money to close the funding gap for a refurbished Ivor Wynne Stadium.

The proposal will now go to the Pan Am host corporations board of directors to be reviewed against Toronto 2015's funding criteria.

Mr. Troop also took the opportunity to mention the proposed Velodrome for Hamilton, which is still at the planning stage. Troop has repeatedly promoted the Velodrome as an exciting opportunity to build a "tremendous high-performance sport legacy" that would have "great impact on sport in Hamilton".

Following is Troop's statement in full:

TO2015 acknowledges receipt of the City of Hamilton's proposal for a new Pan Am soccer stadium, today February 1, 2011. The proposal, which has been ratified by Hamilton's City Council, now goes to TO2015's Board of Directors for review.

TO2015 is pleased the February 1 deadline spurred the City of Hamilton and their funding partners to come to a proposed solution.

TO2015 extends its thanks and acknowledges the city officials in the communities of Oshawa, Markham, Brampton and Mississauga for their consideration of our soccer stadium contingency plan.

As made clear in our statement of January, 13, 2011, the proposal from the City of Hamilton must also address and support the development of high performance amateur sport and athletics.

Hamilton now has the opportunity to provide a vibrant community and amateur sport legacy by putting the velodrome on the front burner. A permanent velodrome has always been part of Pan Am's venue plan for Hamilton and is an issue which still requires resolution. Our intent has always been to provide this world-class facility as part of the infrastructure revitalization plan for Hamilton.

Through our legacy of $700 million in community infrastructure, TO2015 hopes to transform the Greater Toronto Area and the Greater Golden Horseshoe via a footprint that encompasses 17 municipalities, 43 venues that includes five new builds and 22 refurbishments.

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By BroBrad (anonymous) | Posted February 01, 2011 at 11:56:21

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By Participant (anonymous) | Posted February 02, 2011 at 15:30:48 in reply to Comment 59014

BroBrad:
I see your remark has been strongly downvoted, but I have to believe it was offered ironically.
Good one! I wonder if MayorBob would get it if he read RTH anymore?

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By H+H (registered) - website | Posted February 01, 2011 at 12:34:00

I hope that we bring some creativity to the design of a flexible, permanent velodrome.

How that's achieved is up to the designers and architects. Designing single purpose anything is much easier than imagining what else is possible within the same space. If cycling can honestly represent 100% of the available usage that's Ok with me, but even IWS is going to be designed to host soccer and football on a permanent basis.

I've never seen a velodrome, so I really don't have a clear sense for its scale, outside or in. If there are others who can help bring it to life for the rest of us, please do so.

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By goin'downtown (registered) | Posted February 01, 2011 at 13:43:26 in reply to Comment 59016

I found these while toodling around the 'net a couple months ago:

http://www.hopkins.co.uk/projects/_3,131/ http://www.urbanrealm.co.uk/news/1668/Ve...

http://www.recsport.sa.gov.au/whats-on-where/adelaide-super-drome.html http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/olympic...

http://www.p-t-group.com/project_detail....

http://www.belgiancycling.be/EKPisteGent...

http://www.chicagovelocampus.com/10-2/16...

Some seem to be purely cycling venues, while others (particularly the Chicago venue and the Ghent venue) host numerous amenities.

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By JonD (registered) | Posted February 01, 2011 at 14:27:50 in reply to Comment 59025

The Ghent example with the badminton courts in the middle would be put to good use I'm sure. If you've ever played badminton you'll know that next to squash is the best raquet sport for cardio!

Comment edited by JonD on 2011-02-01 14:28:03

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By Zot (anonymous) | Posted February 01, 2011 at 12:43:50 in reply to Comment 59016

If you go to http://www.velodromes.com/ which is the site of a firm of architects that specializes in designing them you can get a good idea

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By Mark-Alan Whittle (anonymous) | Posted February 01, 2011 at 12:34:19

If a permanent Valodrome was always in the cards, then why is the funding short-fall to build one?

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By goin'downtown (registered) | Posted February 01, 2011 at 13:50:30 in reply to Comment 59017

Unless I'm misinterpreting your question, the approved Pan Am expenditure was $60-million, so if 44% of IWS comes in even near the $45-million that Council wanted to cap off at, there should be a reasonable amount of money left for the velodrome.

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By nobrainer (registered) | Posted February 01, 2011 at 12:48:09 in reply to Comment 59017

Because we spent the extra money to build the Tigercats a new stadium.

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By H+H (registered) - website | Posted February 01, 2011 at 13:05:54

@Zot

Thanks for the link. That's very helpful. Again, I'm not sure if the cycling community (locally, regionally, nationally, internationally?) would keep the place fully booked, but if not, I'd love to think about a flexible building.

For example:

  1. Can one "invent" a seating system that slides out on steel rails over the track if you want to do concerts-in-the-round, thereby protecting the wooden surface of the track, but accommodating a lot of people?

  2. Can even a small portion of the roof open easily and cost-effectively without being an expensive dome system?

  3. If built in the WH, could the north wall slide open leaving a 75% open wall overlooking the harbour?

And other ideas?

I'm not naive enough not to realize ideas like these, even if they are possible, are pricier than fixed, single purpose everything. I'm just trying to stimulate the discussion before we have only 48 hours left to make a multi-generation financial and social decision.

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By Robert D (anonymous) | Posted February 01, 2011 at 14:59:22 in reply to Comment 59023

Personally I'd like the velodrome to be well-integrated into the neighbourhood, wherever that is, with features such as an attractive streetscape, integrated mixed use retail (Heck, maybe even have a gym as one of your retail establishments.), cheap office/meeting space for use by community recreation organizations, and additional complimentary recreational land uses nearby (maybe a skate park, connection to cycling/hiking trails, etc.), soccer fields, lawn bowling, etc.

Ideally it would be not just a centre for cycling, but the start of a cross-recreational precinct, where you can try your hand at just about any sport to encourage activity in everyone from youth to seniors. Something with such a broad appeal should be able to get a variety of stakeholders on board.

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By GrapeApe (registered) | Posted February 01, 2011 at 13:29:31 in reply to Comment 59023

Regional indoor track and field, assuming the center in large enough.

Perhaps a suspended running track above the cycling track?

Comment edited by GrapeApe on 2011-02-01 13:36:37

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By goin'downtown (registered) | Posted February 01, 2011 at 13:52:40

Question: do readers scan up and down the comments looking for additional threads? Just wondering...if not, I'm re-posting a comment from a "reply" to a thread above...sorry if I'm just being a pain...


I found these while toodling around the 'net a couple months ago:

http://www.hopkins.co.uk/projects/_3,131/ http://www.urbanrealm.co.uk/news/1668/Ve...

http://www.recsport.sa.gov.au/whats-on-where/adelaide-super-drome.html http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/olympic...

http://www.p-t-group.com/project_detail....

http://www.belgiancycling.be/EKPisteGent...

http://www.chicagovelocampus.com/10-2/16...

Some seem to be purely cycling venues, while others (particularly the Chicago venue and the Ghent venue) host numerous amenities.

@H+H, amazing input.

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By drb (registered) - website | Posted February 01, 2011 at 14:21:27 in reply to Comment 59027

The possibilities for this kind of venue are amazing. Imagine Hamilton as a permanent Olympic training facility. The cross-over with high-level coaching, sports medicine, mountain biking, triathlon. Thanks for the links.

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By H+H (registered) - website | Posted February 01, 2011 at 14:06:57

@goin'downtown

Funny you should repost. I just happened to see your earlier post moments ago as I was scrolling, but not because I was expecting to see it. I've checked each of the links. Thanks very much for this.

Maybe we need to start a master file of velodrome links on RTH? Ryan, is this something you would consider?

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By mrgrande (registered) | Posted February 01, 2011 at 15:00:08

Just imagine the shitshow if HostCo rejects the plan...

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By BeulahAve (registered) | Posted February 01, 2011 at 15:24:15

Saw Mayor Bob talking up the stadium deal at the opening of SoupFest this afternoon, saying what a great moment it is for Hamilton. I booed into my soup.

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By Common sense (anonymous) | Posted February 01, 2011 at 15:30:20

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By wentworthst (anonymous) | Posted February 01, 2011 at 17:06:15 in reply to Comment 59045

And I too extend thanks and acknowledge the communities of Oshawa, Markham, Brampton and Mississauga for their consideration of our soccer stadium contingency plan.

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By H+H (registered) - website | Posted February 01, 2011 at 15:30:50

@RobertD

Like your thinking. Let's be as expansive in our thinking as we can be. Our ideas can contribute to the master plan and our budget can determine the phases.

I plan on making this the last time I say this, :) but the mediocre decision to rebuild half a stadium with all of the money should not cause us to allow mediocrity to be the gold standard for the velodrome.

As Brian McHattie said so wisely in his email to his constituents that was posted by one of them on RTH yesterday, "Onward we go."

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By H+H (registered) - website | Posted February 01, 2011 at 15:32:16

@BeulahAve

Now that's funny!!!

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By -Hammer- (registered) | Posted February 01, 2011 at 15:49:16

I really hope the Board of Directors approves it.

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By BeulahAve (registered) | Posted February 01, 2011 at 17:20:17

I am impressed to see so much excitement around the velodrome, and the feeling of moving on. I think that is wise, especially the notion of posting ideas for the velodrome in a central location that could be accessed by city staff who may be playing catch up for quite awhile due to stadium debate.

However, I am treating this as a day of mourning. Back to Soupfest, I ran into someone who teaches people basic life skills so that they can move forward and eventually get off OW and ODSP. This program has great outcomes! With some of the money the city is spending on the stadium, it could literally fund intensive supports such as these for EVERY person on social assistance in this city. Yet this organization faces the likely prospect that this program will not be funded again next year. Ok, it would be provincial funding, not city, but the point still stands.

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By goin'downtown (registered) | Posted February 01, 2011 at 17:43:41 in reply to Comment 59054

I suspect investments of the Pan Am sort, though, are to increase outside investment (profits) in Hamilton, thereby increasing the availability of funding for other municipal needs at a later date. I don't think Council ignores social issues/projects that need municipal funding; I just think that they are torn by other issues/projects requiring funding as well (e.g. infrastructure) and try to balance those needs with ways to make money to pay for all of them.

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By Brian Velo (anonymous) | Posted February 01, 2011 at 21:37:41

I reiterate my belief that the velodrome will be bigger than the stadium for sport legacy. This facility will be the only one of it's kind in all of Canada and the eastern US. It will be awfly hard to screw this one up.

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By Tnt (registered) | Posted February 01, 2011 at 22:40:08

@Brianvelo. Dont test them!

Im wondering if the spot for the veldrome will be at Sir John A school like the mayor wanted and rebuild the school down at WH?

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By F.Ward Cleat (anonymous) | Posted February 01, 2011 at 23:46:12

I think the core is littered with parking lots that could provide the required space for a velodrome. How about the old bus terminal lot at John and Wilson.

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By Tnt (registered) | Posted February 02, 2011 at 08:14:42

I think that was another site Bratina was thinking about. It seems once something is a parkinglot it never goes into any other use.

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By nobrainer (registered) | Posted February 02, 2011 at 08:17:22 in reply to Comment 59088

Actually he wanted to put it where Sir John A MacDonald School is.

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By Toby (anonymous) | Posted February 02, 2011 at 09:35:44

Velo said that "I reiterate my belief that the velodrome will be bigger than the stadium for sport legacy. This facility will be the only one of it's kind in all of Canada and the eastern US. It will be awfly hard to screw this one up."

Where is Hazel McCallion when you need her. She is quoted as saying that Mississauga doesn't build white elephants. Hamilton apparently does. The velodrome will be as successful here as Montreal's was there....remember they had one built for the olympics....we have wasted too much money already. Drop the velodrome or as Mr. Brattina would say, "Velodrome/Shmelodrome"

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By goin'downtown (registered) | Posted February 02, 2011 at 10:34:54 in reply to Comment 59097

I'm actually a little confused by McCallion's remarks, as well as the other two municipalities (Markham and Oshawa) withdrawing their interest - on the cusp of Hamilton finalizing ours. If the three municipalities weren't interested, why were they short-listed as competition? Sounds like a bit of sour grapes to me, from little ol' Hamilton winning a high-profile role in the Pan Am Games, instead of one of three Toronto bedroom communities. Perhaps if McCallion had any chance at all of landing a national sports team, she would feel differently - but her (and Markham's...and Oshawa's...) proximity to Toronto, I would think, ensures that that will never happen.

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By H+H (registered) - website | Posted February 02, 2011 at 09:39:15

A park is proposed for the site bounded by King William, John, Catherine, and Rebecca. Not sure if it extends to Wilson.

Having said that, the Gore Master Plan has been shelved, as has the trial run of pedestrianizing the south leg of King this summer. Apparently there isn't enough money. Too bad the Ti-Cats don't play football in Gore Park. They have already added parking meters where the buses used to stop. Progress?

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By Tnt (registered) | Posted February 02, 2011 at 17:49:07 in reply to Comment 59098

A park is not a terrible thing in of itself I guess, but don't we already have Beasly serving that area? Wouldn't some infill housing better suit it instead? An no low density, but high density mixed use?

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By hammy (anonymous) | Posted February 02, 2011 at 12:57:43

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Comment edited by hammy on 2011-02-02 12:58:09

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By tnt (registered) | Posted February 02, 2011 at 13:20:37

H+H Is that true? Not the park bit, but the Gore Master Plan is shelved? I thought Bratina was a huge advocate for that when he was Ward 2 councillor? That is possibly the biggest need that the city has is the repair and rebuild of Gore park area. I thought (with no evidence at all really) that it was connected to the McNab terminal movement.

A city needs connected, active areas that serve a multitude of uses. Like Gore park with connected business and public uses.

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By H+H (registered) - website | Posted February 02, 2011 at 15:17:40

Yes it's true. Kathy Drewitt, the Executive Director of the downtown BIA is not happy about it. Apparently, she had already done a lot of work around programming for the trial run. Shelved doesn't mean cancelled, od course, but if we can't even afford to do a trial, it doesn't look hopeful for anything meaningful in the near term.

BTW, I sat on the Citizen's Advisory Committee for the Gore Master Plan, and I think the group did a good job with their input. Staff did a very good job designing and conducting the public input process. Implementation is up to Council, however.

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By jason (registered) | Posted February 02, 2011 at 16:21:28 in reply to Comment 59121

they shelved the program in order to pave a few potholes. typical hamilton priorities.

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By jason (registered) | Posted February 02, 2011 at 18:48:11

Way to go Hamilton. We'll show Wales how to build new stadia

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_o7AswFY1L0I/TT...

hmmm, no we won't

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By Tnt (registered) | Posted February 03, 2011 at 01:14:25 in reply to Comment 59138

Oh that stings. You can't even see the steel mills!

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By mrjanitor (registered) | Posted February 02, 2011 at 21:07:36

A park is proposed for the site bounded by King William, John, Catherine, and Rebecca. Not sure if it extends to Wilson

Is this the same land the Hamilton Mosque wanted to purchase for their housing project but were veto'd by the police wanting it for a warehouse??

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By Andrea (registered) | Posted February 02, 2011 at 21:55:50 in reply to Comment 59152

I don't think so, the proposed park is a parking lot and Rebecca is the Northern boundry. I thought the land the Mosque wanted to purchase was directly adjacent to their property and bound by Catherine, Mary & Rebecca (but I could be wrong). Either way, the park lot is one block south.

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By tnt (registered) | Posted February 06, 2011 at 16:44:52

In the 1960s' people could see that parks in cities were dangerous places that only had single uses for minimal parts of the day. The resons being that they are regulated to not allow people to use them for anything, but very specific use.

Look at successful parks in Hamilton: Confederation and Pier 4. These have a diversity of uses and ammenities to support people being there. Obviously both are in need of much, much more to really master their potential.

That said, other parks with some playground structures, but forbidden to play sports in them, are another waste of space that creates dark voids in cities.

I'm not advocating for concrete jungles and 60 storey condos, but some denser living is needed. A park vs a parklinglot doesn't improve very much.

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